A Dutch Muslim
- A report of 2 parts from Highlife, spring 1999 / part 2 -
 
Highlife: Did you in those days have a lot of money?
 
Karel: I had so much money, I did not learn at school to count that much. I swear to you. Don’t ask me where it all has gone. A big part I lost when the IRT got me. They took money all the way from Morocco to Stockholm. And put 37 people in a cage (in jail), me included.
 
How did you go on in Holland?
 
I put two brothers of my ex in the farm in Morocco to keep it on going. And it was just going on, only I wasn’t in Morocco any more. They exploited the farm for a certain percentage.
 
How often did it go wrong, transporting by car or boat?
 
With cars, only one time, with boats never. But one time is one time too many, off course. And although I was not there myself, caught is caught, it does not matter who is in the car. I know that people think, as long it is not my money, it is not wrong. But I think that is bullshit. If you get caught it is wrong. Certainly in those countries. In Holland you can think quietly in your cell if it was worth it. In those countries you find yourself in hell. Even more when you are alone. And that happens a lot more often than you think. The guys who get caught are most of the time very sour. Most of the times you are left to your faith. There are very few people who think of you when you really are in jail.
 
Did your containers never get caught?
 
The IRT regularly passes them through Customs. I worked for Dutch people, where I really did not know anything of, do I did not know for whom these containers would be. But I know how many of these are caught or send through.
 
Explain …
 
Look, my own lines were never caught. It went wrong, just when someone of the IRT was placed in my own organization, in Holland, to catch me. That was in the early nineties, that was when the net was closing.
 
What happened?
 
In those days, I owned a casino in some place in Holland. I had a disgusting lot of money that I did not know what to do with it. I was starting to gamble and spend two million a year. At a certain moment, I got so sick that I could not win the game, so I thought: I am at the wrong side of the table. So I bought myself a casino. And one, which was doing very well. I was the manager, only on paper, and earned 1500 guilders a week, I had someone else made director. But I kept all the shares myself. In that period I pulled on all the lines of Stockholm, and worked very hard. To make a long story short: one of the people I worked with was sent to me by the IRT. He was offering me hash, which was stolen by the people of the IRT themselves from the ‘passing trough’ actions. They were looking for a good way to export the hash to other countries, which the IRT was not watching. So that was what they were offering me through this guy, who they forced working with them.
 
It was not meant to catch you, but to earn money with it?
 
Yes, that is how it started, and that is how it slowly went wrong. The hash was offered to me for 200 guilders less than the regular price of that moment. I had enough space and buyers. So, there went three times 500 kilos. At the third time I had a phone-call from somebody – later on, he was shot – who said ‘Look out, you are buying hash from the IRT’. So I did my thing with it. I was shot at in that period, on the highway, and I know it was the police.
 
So, how did they eventually catch you?
 
Those guys knew so much of me, that they used the girl I had married in the meantime, an Algerian girl. We had a bad relationship, and she did not have a permanent residence permit when I getting a divorce. To certain that residence permit, she talked to the cops. She really talked a lot. And she still is in Holland, although we are divorced. She made a deal with the cops. She exchanged a residence permit for information.
 
What did she reveal?
 
They caught my line from Morocco to Holland and one from Holland to Sweden. I was for 37 months in jail, and nine months in isolation, even isolated from other prisoners, TV and radio. They also took everything I owned. After those 37 months they had to let me go with a verdict which was a smelly one. The punishment was the same as my detention under remand. They delayed the case for five times with all kind of poor excuses and I could only appealed to a higher court, when I was a free man again. During the hearing of the appeal they had not much of a case, but I already lost all my money. And than we are not even talking about taxes. That’s really a big misery.
 
What was your verdict?
 
The import and export of hash, laundering my money and abuse. In those days I did business with an exchange-office, which was caught during a big police action. I was in the middle of it. But they did know so much of me, it was really impossible. That was all because of my ex-wife. They did not only catch me, but everybody around me too. The whole organization was broken.
 
Did you pick up the pieces when you got out of jail?
 
No, I’ve had it, I really did. For about ten times, I thought my life was over. There is a moment in your life, that you can’t stand it any more. I was also abusing alcohol. I had seen things, and made decisions, which are really not OK. That, I did not want any more. Your life is under a great stress, you have to watch everything. You live with beepers, faxes and telephones. You have to move constantly and always check the people you are dealing with. You always have to watch your people, although you are working with them for years. To look if they are still honest with you. You are constantly making little traps for them, to look what will happen. You have to be paranoid to survive. You can’t keep that up, because in that world are people who want to have your money, and sometimes they can only be stopped in one way. By showing that you are stronger and smarter than them. To always be one step ahead, to hit them, before they hit you. But if they didn’t want to hit you, than you hit them without having rights for that. But, you can not think that way in that world. I just got tired of it.
 
You stopped because of your paranoia?
No, far more stings of conscience than paranoia.
 
Did you ever do something with heavier drugs than hash?
 
No, never. Fuck off with that shit. It never was an issue for me. I have seen them doing business, and big. But I also saw them come and go, in a fast time. For me the limit is hash. I was very lucky that I was at a young age, when I met that hard shit, so I knew early what kind of a destroying effects that shit has. That I stopped early and that I have seen at a young age how fast people get destroyed by it. People, who I know that they are dealing heavy dope, I don’t want to know at all.
 
Are you often stolen from in your career?
 
A few times. Once I have been shot when stealing from me. But eventually they run away with some little pieces of hash and my wallet with nearly 800 guilders. Really a shooting about nothing. I’ve never been molested heavier than that one time, so it is not too much. If you mean if I was betrayed, than it is very different. That was one out of ten deals. Because they constantly trying to betray you in that world. But you learn to estimate people at value when you are into that kind of business.
 
Did you have people to protect you?
 
Sure you pay people for your protection. There is one moment, you can’t miss that.
 
Did you see the hardening of the hash-market?
 
Yes, and I have been so stupid to go along with it. I should have left that world earlier, only to grow and improve. I bought myself a gun, and I was carrying grenades to protect myself. In the old days, at the early seventies, something like that was unthinkable. I never experienced violence then. It was the time of flower power. But the hardening took place fast. Everything was going more commercial and harder and more violent. That was for me at the early seventies.
 
Do you still see people from your smuggling-past?
 
No, I never speak to anyone any more. I have given my past a place, where it hopefully finds some rest and work nowadays at an office, from nine to five. My life is entirely at the service of the little plant, because in my spare time I grow and improve, more than ever. It still is an obsession. That I will never let loose. But the cops know about it, I think, so I am busy with it as far as the cops think that it is OK. Because I really don’t want any fuss, I really can’t stand it any more.

This interview appeared originally on Highlife On Line, in the spring of 1999. We thank the publisher and editor for their contribution. Copyright 1999 'Highlife'

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